Husbands for Hire: Ed Mansfield

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This is part of the Worcester Rental Real Estate Networking and Training series.

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[Start 0:00:00]

Ed: I do appreciate you guys having me come in tonight and talk about a bunch of different subjects. What my company is it’s a small home improvement. I started well over 12 years and we have five fulltime employees. They’re not subcontractors. They’re employees of my company. When I started the business, I started out of my home and it was one of those things where I saw the demand for needing small home repairs and my background is in engineering, so a lot of people when you go to do repairs, it’s kind of what caused the problem. That’s what I think is really the big difference in my company is that we look at what’s going on and then try to figure out what’s causing it.
I mean some things are just general wear and tear and are breaking down but some of the topics that I want to talk about, one in particular is I think the care of tile work because I’m sure lots of people have older homes. They have beautiful old tire work but then you start getting issues and then you also have properties where you’ve kind of purchased them and people have done installations of products not well. What do you do with it? I mean my thought is it’s always not to try and get rid of a tile floor just because it’s either dirty, it has a couple of cracked tiles. You know I have a lot of experience now when kind of assessing what’s going on with your floor. Sometimes it can be a doorway and you’re getting lots of say water, heavy traffic, the subfloor starting to sag or fatigue, was it not installed right. A lot of times if you have spare tiles or those tiles are not cracked but they’re just floating. They can be reset or one of my kind of key things that I’m capable of doing is plucking out and taking out just a couple of tiles out of a floor or even like say a bathroom shower. How many times have you seen where a plumber has to come in and demoed to get into where a valve is and stuff and you have old horsehair plaster, you have lath and then how do you reattach that.
That’s kind of the finesse things that my company has learned how to handle. A lot of it has been through kind of a little bit of troubleshooting and also being very well knowledgeable in all the different products that are out there. One of the things I have to say is my company is certified by a lot of the different tile companies now. We’ve gone to seminars, so we know about all the different like the HardieBacker products. There’s also what’s called AquaSeal, which is a paintable membrane that’s able to go on to different surfaces.
When I walk in and I look at what’s going on with issues of cracking tile, sagging tile, walls that are kind of have shifted over time. What I’ll end up doing if it’s a surface that I think can be saved in the sense of being cleaned up, the tiles are solid but the grout is breaking down due to like cleaners. That’s one of the big issues, things with bleach and stuff like that. that scrubbing and abuse that happens to them. I can go in and use an acid wash to get rid of that mold, that mildew and also abrade back the grout, so now I can actually go and bond back over to it.
A lot of different products that are out there now especially with like ceiling tile, going over old porous tile. You see that old crackle finish in it and one of the issues is that once that glaze is cracking, the moisture is now wicking in and getting to the bonding mortar that’s behind them. So a penetrating sealant actually just applied to the tile before it’s grouted actually seals the face of that tile, so now it’s now going to sheath water. It’s going to stop that penetration from getting into the back of it, and then if we use a polymer-based grout, which they have a bunch of different products that are latex-based now, so it’s like a silicone that goes into the grout and seals the grout. So when that that goes on, you get rid of that black and mold, so which everybody pulls off in the shower, takes a quick look and says like, “No. I’m never going to shower in here.” So that’s some of the different things, and I can go in with even I have small tools, which are diamond-cutters, small tiny thin wheels. I can take out any of the loose grout or damaged grout, or discolored grout, with these cutting wheels.
[0:05:11]
So instead of just walking into a shower and sees mold and mildew and people just feel like they want to immediately just smash that out and then put in a new tile, one of my big things is can I save it. I mean if those tiles are hanging on there and they’re solid, it can be saved. I know it’s the same thing. I run into a lot of instances of course people have ball and claw tubs. They’re renting to people with children. That water is going to splash out onto the floors, and you always feel at the tub line that sponginess and stuff. I have 9 out of 10 times have been able to kind of save and remove those loose tiles from the floor. Pick them up, take them back to my shop, I can soak them in a mild acid, break down the mortar that’s on the back of the tile, so they’re like brand-new tile. I mean I can take the tile that are coming out of there with its grout, its mortar, and then basically for a day soak them in a solution, soften that, clean it off and now I have like brand-new tile to reset and re-lay in. So that’s one of those real kind of nifty things.
But then, the next thing I’ll do is I’ll look at that subfloor in front of that tub, cut out that subfloor, add extra blocking because a lot of times things were framed 24 inches on center. So you don’t have enough support, so I’ll add blocking between the rafters that are there to support of course the point of contact where you’re coming in and out of the tub. I’ll replace that with a HardieBacker product – concrete board which is also – the HardieBacker is probably the best one because it’s inorganic. It won’t grow mold. So by putting that down there, it can be submerged in water and it won’t grow mold. That’s what I love about HardieBacker.
Then on top of that, do we need an isolation barrier. Some of these old homes, there’s a lot of expansion, contraction. They’re post and beam framed so you’re getting a lot of movement in the house, so if there’s not an isolation barriers and there’s all different kinds of. I have isolation barrier that’s as thick as a piece of paper but it’s super strong, especially when a proper mortar is put underneath it that allows its support. What happens is the house can move and shift. They’re latex-based so they don’t crack. It’s not like concrete which you just crack. This stuff actually has a little bit of flex to it.
Then there’s the other thicker isolation barriers and some that are actually reinforced with fiberglass strand. It’s actually like rope and it’s woven and then when we go back over it with a polymer-based thin-set mortar. It’s super, super strong. It’s actually stronger than even a concrete board. It’s kind of knowing those products and where to use them and in what application I think is what makes it really different, the difference in my company, and —

Rich: Ed, can [unintelligible 0:08:06].

Ed: Sure, please.

Rich: Over here. What is a HardieBacker?

Ed: It’s a concrete tiling board, so it can be used on flooring applications. It’s probably the best product to be used in a shower or tub enclosure on the walls for mounting and bonding tile to.

Rich: Right. So rather than put the tile directly on the surface, you put this underneath it.

Ed: It’s the under-laminate or it’s like in the replacement of say the walls around the shower. You would blue board it and plaster it. Instead of that, you would use HardieBacker. It’s a half-inch bonding board. And then the other thing that people don’t realize with that HardieBacker board, when it’s being used on a floor as a flooring subfloor like you need to stiffen and have a nice clean surface for your tile to bond to, it’s also supposed to be thin-seated underneath because it has to make contact with the existing subfloor. I don’t think I’ve ever found anyone that does it that way and then it’s supposed to be screwed every 6 inches and mapped and gridded off and done and so many people just leave a few roofing nails in it, drywall screws. But if you don’t put the mortar and bond it down and what the water is doing, it’s filling the undulation of these old subfloors especially if they are like pine plank. That’s where the HardieBacker backed it down, which is great because the tile will bond to that, but without it and being supported to the main subfloor, you now have that capability of it to crack. You know it’s going to flex without support.

Rich: Got you. So anything that I’ve managed has been like 100 to 120 years old, okay.

Ed: Correct.

Rich: So you had mentioned the building shifting with age and there’s not a 90-degree angle to be found in the entire apartment.

Ed: Yes.

Rich: You know what I mean. You can put a marble anywhere on the floor and it will roll in four different directions, right?
[0:10:03]

Ed: Correct.

Rich: So it sounds like if I hear what you’re saying is that cracked tiles are not an inevitability that if you install them properly, they could actually hold up to those kind of conditions?

Ed: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean I’ve literally that had bathrooms that have had like hardwood flooring, you know old maple. It’s damaged. It’s abused. But it’s a solid surface, and now I can bond that HardieBacker plank on top of that subfloor. I can actually then have some capability because I’m putting that subfloor down and depending on if I also use an isolation barrier, I can also kind of thin-set and float that floor back to level or closer to level, so that you don’t have that big run out and pitch across the room.

Rich: Interesting, okay. You had mentioned a kind of grout that you like to use, a polymer grout. Is that correct?

Ed: Correct, correct.

Rich: So if we were to go to Home Depot, is that just in the grout section like what is that?

Ed: Right. One of the better products out there is MAPEI, and what it is it’s finer silica product, so it’s not like sanded grout. It’s more like unsanded grout, even for regular floors and gaps up to half an inch. MAPEI is great in the sense that it already has a polymer in it. it’s still a bit porous, and I still do recommend putting a grout sealant over the surface of it, but it’s vastly, vastly more durable and resistant to mold, mildew, discoloration.

Rich: Which is always something that happens when you use just regular grouts?

Ed: Right.

Rich: If you did it that way, you’d be able to say I’m trying to save money here. You’d be able to save money by not having to replace that when it gets all moldy.

Ed: Correct, correct.

Rich: So now you’re able to stop the tiles from cracking. You’re also able to stop the grout from getting moldy. I have one other question that I’m going to —

Ed: Sure.

Rich: You had mentioned, which is a completely foreign concept to me, taking if the tile is in good condition, removing the grout and re-grouting it. Is that cost-effective to do it that way?

Ed: If you were to take the overall cost of the demolition, the disposal of tile, which is very weighty, you know a small bathroom can be up to 200 pounds of disposal right there alone, and then having to put a new subfloor and then purchasing a tile. A lot of these older tiles were porcelain tile. I mean the stuff is thick and heavy. You go to Home Depot and you look at a ceramic tile, which is only a quarter of an inch, ceramic is like the softest product out there, and it’s not good at shear, meaning you stand on it, it wants to crack and break where a lot of the older tiles are ceramic, it’s more like fine china. A fine china plate is so much stronger than just a clay plate, and that’s the difference kind of between a porcelain tile and a ceramic tile. The ceramic has nowhere near the strength of a porcelain, so a lot of times if the grout is fracturing or even a lot of times if I’ve had tile floors where I know it’s floating, I mean it’s laid down there but it’s in imperfect condition. But unfortunately some installer did not do either he had a dry mix so like the mortar only stuck to the tile but it didn’t stick to the subfloor, you hear them floating.
One of the ways we can bond them back or save that product before they tilt and debris gets underneath them. Then they’re going to crack. But if they’re sitting supported on their subfloor and we cut that grout away, there’s another grout out there. It’s premixed and they sell it through like Best Tile. Home Depot does have a line of it but it’s like working with caulking. It’s almost 100 percent silicone based, so it’s like silicon caulking with sandy grout in it and this stuff is crazy. It grabs the surface and I’ve really done like kitchen floors where you have chunks of grout coming out of the floor all around the place. You can hear if you tap on the tiles, they’re almost hollow sounding, but they’re all solid and I’ll remove any lose grout. I’ll acid wash the surface and I’ll go back over and grout with this latex premixed grout, and it’s like rubberized so it’s also impervious to water.

Rich: Okay. Does anybody have any tile questions before we move on to the next? Wow, okay. Here you go.
[0:15:04]

Female Audience 1: I just wanted to know can you use that in the shower?

Ed: Absolutely, absolutely like Home Depot has I think it’s just like bone white like Delorean gray so it’s kind of limited in —

Rich: Is it really called Delorean gray?

Ed: Yeah [laughter].

Rich: Whatever it is I would buy that.

Female Audience 2: My question is you said there was – I have in my tenants’ bathroom those 3 foot x 1 foot vinyl tiles and it’s in a bathroom, so I want to waterproof the seams, and you had said there is some kind of spray. Is that —

Ed: Yeah. I’m talking more about ceramic and porcelain tile, but I would imagine that that same like there is a vinyl floor tile that’s [unintelligible 0:16:10] stacked tile and then you grout it. So are you talking about that product line?

Female Audience 2: No, these are just vinyl. What I did is because it’s a bathroom, I took clear caulking and kind of went around each and every single one of them.

Ed: Right.

Female Audience 2: But I didn’t know that there is some kind of spray I could just get to —

Ed: Unfortunately, there is not a just a clear surface solve-all.

Female Audience 2: Yeah, like —

Ed: I wish.

Male Audience 1: [unintelligible 0:16:39] I love that you started with tile. We do a lot of tile in our units. I think the Home Depot brand is the Fusion Pro with the red lid.

Ed: Okay.

Male Audience 1: I saw a demo in there and then within 2 minutes, he poured coffee right on it and it wiped right off and it was brand new.

Ed: Right.

Male Audience 1: My question is about DITRA. Have you used DITRA and do you like it?

Ed: I can’t…yeah.

Male Audience 1: It’s that orange waffled board with the…

Ed: Okay, I have used DITRA. It is a good product because it is an isolation barrier, but there’s much better ones out there. what it is such as if you go to Home Depot – not Home Depot but Best Tile – they have a couple of different lines. I think one is Schluter, and it is small rings. So it’s kind of a white sheath and they look like doughnuts and they have rectangular slots cut into them, so they’re hollow. It has almost kind of like a felt back, so again the proper way to us that product is you want a full modified thin-set mortar, so it’s got to be flexible. Laticrete makes one. That’s called XLT and it’s probably the best product. It has the best grip. When you’re fighting levelness when tiling especially with heavier wall tile or floor tile, you can go up to a half-inch trawl, which now allows you to kind of level and set tile on surfaces that are pitching so we can kind of correct a lot of the pitch.
But the Schluter isolation barrier, one of the neat factors is it’s doughnut and when you thin-set, you use a small quarter-inch trawl, you lay it down. You use your grout float to press it down and bond it to the surface. Then you immediately can lay tile on top of it, so you again thin-set the top of this product, fill in the voids, but these little doughnuts, the mortar actually goes into the rings and grabs while the Home Depot waffled DITRA, it’s just [unintelligible 0:19:08] of rectangles in the product. It’s a good product but it doesn’t have the grip and then the best product that is out there that’s made – I use it all the time, so it’s not coming to my mind.

Rich: Of course not! You remember it at 3 o’clock this morning.

Ed: But if you go to Home Depot, what it is it’s a blue sheath and it’s literally strands of rope. It’s the only way to describe it. It’s woven across the surface in like an octangular pattern. But the key to it is at every point that cross each other, it’s fused, so it’s kind of like pet screening, if you all know what pet screening is.

Rich: Well, I’m not sure if that’s one of our topics.

Ed: No [laughter].

Rich: We actually went over on the tiles.
[0:20:00]

Ed: Okay, yeah.

Rich: There are five things we’re going to cover.

Ed: I know, yeah.

Rich: We’re going to have to skip one of them.

Ed: Yeah. No problem.

Rich: So what are the next four and we’ll put it up to a vote.

Ed: Okay. I was going to talk about —

Rich: This is like Survivor for business topics. Somebody is getting voted off the island.

Ed: This is true. So I got to talk about plaster repair.

Rich: Okay.

Ed: You know ceilings, walls, and so on.

Rich: Yeah.

Ed: Drop ceiling installations and what I think are the best locations and ways of going about it.

Rich: Okay.

Ed: Kitchen facelifts meaning not demolishing out a kitchen, but what are the things you can do to take an old kitchen and give it some sex appeal.

Rich: That’s a good one. Do we like that one?

Audience: Yeah.

Rich: Yeah, let’s do that one, Ed.

Ed: [laughter] All right, so you want to jump into that one? All right, kitchen facelifts. I mean how many people have that old classic built-in kitchen and a nice brown stain early American. Have you even seen Jacobean? What are we going to do with those? I mean a lot of times, those cabinets are absolutely were built in place. They’re solid as a rock, but they’re not just super appealing. I mean I’ve done a lot of different things with those cabinets. I mean obviously painting them is one of the key things. It comes down to your prep, how well do you sand them, how well do you fill in all the voids, a lot of things I can do with them is I can change them over to European hinges, so especially if we’re going to paint, so any of the surface hinge I can make go away.
I can fill all those holes. I can sand all the face tiles. I can sand the doors, and then I can pocket them now so that they can have a European hinge and then European hinges are great because now I have the capability of leveling them, tipping them, moving them in and out, changing over just that hinge hardware to like a European hinge. Now the doors both swing open and close nice and smoothly. If they’re binding anywhere, if they have a lot of layers of paint, I can run them through my table saw, basically clean out the square edging on them so now they fit into the space that they properly should. A lot of people don’t think about that. They just throw another coat of paint on them, throw another — well now you’re building them up to the point where they’re jamming, they’re sticking, and stuff like that, or just started to get out of square. The old hinges are sagging and they’re just changing up the face hardware, going from brass or black to a nice nickel finish. When somebody comes in, it looks current. Let’s see…

Rich: What are the most common sort of hardware if your clients have a request, what sort of hardware do they normally choose? Do they choose the brass nickel? What do they like?

Ed: Right now, it’s brass nickel, either brass nickel or chrome. I mean if you’re going to come in and you want a nice clean bright look, nickel yes, they’re a little trendy but basically if I’m going to buy a faucet, there’s probably 30 faucets that are brass nickel and I probably have three that are of any quality in chrome, although chrome is classic. I think chrome is never going to go away. If you have a stainless steel sink and you got chrome fixture on it, as long as you have a good-quality faucet, I mean they do break down and it’s not the one thing that’s used all the time, so they’re going to break down, but yeah trend-wise everybody just kind of walks in and their eyes are like, “Whoa! It’s nickel.” And you’re changing your light fixture in your kitchen to a nickel finish so now you have kind of that consistency.
If you have drawers, you either go on the pulls or knobs. One of the things like myself, I don’t measure each individually cabinet door. I make up a nice little jig, so I end up with a jig that’s like an NL. It’s reversible. It can go up or down and when I’m putting doorknob, cabinet knobs on, I center that. I use my drill press right on site, and I can make my template, put it on the door and now like I can quickly and efficiently go around your whole entire kitchen to put every single knob at the same location, be it a top drawer, bottom drawer, left, right, so…

Rich: I know exactly what you’re talking about.

Ed: Yeah.

Rich: I have one kitchen where somebody obviously tried to do that before I was there. It may have been Ray Charles but [laughter].

Ed: So you know the look I‘m talking about?

Rich: Yeah, absolutely. I’m familiar with that look.

Ed: Yeah.

Rich: Now you had mentioned making the light fixture match the cabinet hardware. What kinds of light fixtures are people looking for?

Ed: Right now, of course in kitchens it’s getting away from that one big – not that a lot of times we’re kind of stuck with the light fixture that has a pull chain only because of just the age of the unit. I run into that all the time, but there is a lot of good companies out there that have come out with more modernizing glass wearing stuff. If we go online to Amazon and stuff there’s just a multitude of more current-looking, but they can be adopted, too, but the lights with the pull chain. One of the capabilities I have is I can also buy a globe that’s not designed specifically for that and then cut in through the glass for the hole for another pull chain. So now…
[0:25:41]

Rich: That’s a cool idea.

Ed: Yeah. I mean there’s diamond bits for cutting through tile while they work fabulous on glass.

Rich: Okay. I have another quick question for you about that and then we have some other questions as well. So, on the subject of lights and I’m actually just kind of put this up to a show of hands because actually I’m trying to figure out what people are doing, so one thing that you can do if you want to get rid of the pull chain and you want to put it to a light switch. I mean the right way to do it would be to down low part of the ceiling and the wall and put that in there right away like that, right?

Ed: Correct.

Rich: So the right way is also the expensive way, so there’s another way to do it where if you have the electrical setup, you can actually just run conduit over the ceiling and over the wall, which is not as nice looking. So I’m going to put this up to a vote here. Which do you think your tenants would rather have — the pull chain or the switch with the conduit shown over the ceiling? So a show of hands for the pull chain. Okay. How many do you think the tenants would prefer the socket one, to have the switch? Okay, all right because I had this dispute with my maintenance guy. I said the socket one and he —

Male Audience 2: Third option?

Rich: Yeah. There are definitely more options because I really don’t know what I’m talking about.

Male Audience 2: [unintelligible 0:27:03] with the electrician [unintelligible 0:27:05]?

Rich: Yeah, okay. That was the other one.

Sandra: Stain on kitchens. We’ve got tenants that don’t pay that much attention to really upkeep of our units. So when you’re talking about like kitchen sinks and the kind of kitchen sink to put in that will either not crack or have scratches and the next thing you know you’ve got the code department coming in and say you got to replace your kitchen sink. What recommendation would you have again? Again this is income property. Most of our tenants don’t really understand value.

Ed: Right, so generally I find that if you pay the higher price for a stainless steel sink, the thicker the gauge, the better. Then one of the other things you’ll notice is when you get into the thicker and better quality sinks also, one of the ways to know that it’s a better quality sink is when you flip it over. It almost has like an undercoat like a truck bed would have or your undercarriage of your car and that’s another reinforcing layer that they’ve laid on it, so they may have a thicker stainless steel. When you get those products, you can go in with the buffer. I mean you can lightly sand that with 300-grit wet sand, so when you get scratches and things like that but it just comes down to gauge of metal. I mean it’s the one place like you said it just see so much abuse.
When you go to the heaviest gauge, deep sink that you can put in, a lot of times it’s hard to put a deep sink in, depending on the old plumbing. You got the cast-iron pipe or you have the heavy old copper that’s in there. Sometimes, there are limitations to going to a deep sink but I find that people that install deeper sinks have less damage in them because people aren’t trying to wedge things underneath the faucets and things like that into the sink, but that’s probably stainless because you can bluff it out and stuff, I prefer that.
Although the old white porcelain is not bad, but the problem is that people junk, throw things in [unintelligible 0:29:22] as it’s going to chip, and I’m not a giant fan again of the same thing like there’s a Corian kind of sink. Again people, they’re just going to dump their dishes and stuff in there, and as what you’re saying, one of the things I’ll throw out there is I was a housing inspector for the town of Northbridge for 3 years, so working for the board of health. I know what you people are talking about because I was the guy called out by the tenants because they’re not paying their rent, they don’t want to pay their rent, so they’re coming out with excuses as to why their place is you know unlivable.
[0:30:00]

Rich: All right, so the cost effective choice for sinks is to actually invest in getting a good sink just like Brian wants me to do everything in the right way, too. That’s your best bet long. You did a nice job not cringing during my last question. I appreciate that because Ed wants to do everything perfect and exactly the right way as well. So we have other kitchen questions around before Ed moves along?

Male Audience 3: Here.

Rich: I’m coming. Here you are.

Female Audience 3: Hi. I realized what you said you don’t really like the porcelain sinks. But our house that we rent was built in the 1920s and it has a double porcelain sink. Do you have a recommendation for what you can use to do any repairs where it’s stripped?

Ed: There is. I don’t. There used to be a refinisher out of Uxbridge. The fellow’s name is Joe Lefebvre. It was Phoenix Refinishing, and the product line that he had was it was an epoxy paint, but the key to the epoxy paints are it has to be UV activated, so I know there’s someone here in Worcester – I wish I had contact with whoever this other fellow is that is now doing that same epoxy paint. But it’s literally a two-part epoxy. It’s UV activated, so if you’re talking with people that refinish tubs, tile, parts and fixtures like that, and one of the things with this is he literally can spray this on. He acid washes it. He sands it. You cover all your metal fixtures. He sprays it on. He shines this giant UV light on it, and you can shower in it like immediately. That’s one of the big – I mean you can literally within 5 minutes or less, step in the shower and use it.

Rich: That would make him uncomfortable if he’s still there in the bathroom [laughter]. So keep that in mind, folks.

Ed: Yeah.

Female Audience 4: In many cases, the porcelain is chipped out [unintelligible 0:32:05].

Ed: Right. The fellows that do that epoxy they fill that like an Auto Bondo, and then they put that epoxy over it. All of a sudden, any pits or voids, especially if you have like the old water fixture, what happens is the water is dripping. It abrades and you get that rough surface right where the water is to get that staining from the hard minerals, the potassium, the iron, and things like that. So they do acid wash that off and they will use like an Auto Bondo and they bond that. They sand that out. They wet sand it, all that now you have that perfectly clean and that’s what Joe used to do. But I know the key is if the guy says it’s UV epoxy, and you can ask them can I shower immediately, and if he says yes, that’s probably the right product.

Rich: And who this fellow here has a recommendation as well?

Male Audience 4: Yeah. Another company that I have used for a long time is Ultimate Reglaze.

Female Audience 5: Yes.

Male Audience 4: And if you’ll just look them up, you’ll find them, Keith Tetreault. They’ve been doing it a very long time. They stand behind their product.

Female Audience 5: They don’t have the UV light.

Rich: All right. She says they don’t have the UV light.

Female Audience 5: But they do a good job.

Rich: But they do a good job.

Female Audience 6: What was the name of the company?

Rich: What was the name of the company

Female Audience 5: Ultimate Reglaze.

Rich: Ultimate Reglaze.

Ed: And the other neat thing with that same product is that you can do for Mica countertops with it. So if you have those old islands and countertops that are damaged, that same epoxy finish that’s sprayed on, they do. It’s kind of a full granite but it’s not a cheap, a bunch of Jimmies sprinkled on it. It’s not that product. It is a really fabulous product, and so the guys that do the tubs can also do your countertops in your kitchens.

Rich: That’s great. This fellow here has a question as well.

Ed: Sure.

Dave: You mentioned sanding the cabinets and everything. Do you check ahead of time to make sure it doesn’t have lead paint?

Ed: That’s the first thing I thought when I said that. If they were like a painted cabinet?

Dave: Yeah [unintelligible 0:34:14].

Ed: If I walk into that building and it had any age, that’s the first thing I would check, and I am lead certified as to work with it.

Dave: RRP Rule?

Ed: Yeah, the RRP, correct.

Rich: One of the first apartments I had, I went in these really nice-looking cabinets. But they’re all these like black marks all over them and I asked the realtor before I actually even bought the building. I said, “What happened in here?”
He said, “Somebody took a hatchet to the cabinets.”
I said, “Why the hell would somebody take a hatchet to the cabinets? What did the cabinets ever do to this person?” [laughter]

Female Audience 7: It’s the landlord, right?

Rich: And the realtor looks at me and said, “Well, no. This is to make it look like it’s antique.”
[laughter] “It looks like it’s vandalized. It doesn’t look like it’s antique.” Don’t do that, in my opinion.

Ed: No, no.
[0:35:00]

Rich: So we talked about changing the hardware on the cabinets, painting them, but also making sure you don’t have too many layers of built-up paint, changing the light fixture to match the hardware and stuff like that so that you can make the kitchen a little newer, a little brighter without having to tear the whole thing down and spend $20,000 putting in a new one.

Ed: I want to add one other thing, and the other thing is changing all of your drawers to full extension, either self-close and that’s one of the things I’ve finessed on.

Rich: My mom has those in her house, so I put them in the apartments. People like them.

Ed: Exactly. So I can take care same old drawers and then now adapt them to full-length exposure and make them so that they’re self-closing. It depends on —

Rich: Does anybody know what they are? They’re really cool.

Sandra: Yeah.

Rich: Everybody does so I can tell you.

Sandra: You can tell me.

Rich: Me and you. Okay, we’re going to have our own meeting right now about this. Like you can’t slam the cabinet or the drawer like you got to push it shut and it gets like this far from being close and it’s just like real smooth and slow like it closes itself. It’s awesome. I think we have time for one other quick question, and believe it or not we’re going to be out of time on this.

Ed: Yeah.

Male Audience 5: [unintelligible 0:36:14] out of time. There are several companies out there that will just you can measure up your cabinet spaces.

Ed: Correct.

Male Audience 5: And you can just order them online.

Ed: Correct.

Male Audience 5: At $300, $400, $500 you say that’s a lot of money but they come in finished. You’re going to buy the hardware and stuff like that, but you got a brand-new door. All you got to do is do the trim around your cabinets and you got a brand-new kitchen.

Rich: I believe that’s something you actually told me about before.

Ed: Yes.

Rich: Yeah.

Ed: It is re-facing and then same thing on the sides and stuff. It’s a thin veneer, which you bond on to the side so now you get the nice appearance with a nice clean side.

Rich: That’s awesome.

Ed: Yeah.

Rich: All right, let’s hear it for Ed Mansfield, guys [applause].

Ed: Thank you.

[End 0:37:20]

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